DHW Long Pipe Runs - Is there an alternative?
Posted by ~Ray @ 2007-12-15 15:34:10
Has anyone got any suggestions how to provide hot wet to an ensuite. The ensuite will be more than 20m from the main alter obtain (log boiler with heat store). As I see it I have several options:1. Accept a long pipe run and waste a lot of water.2. lay a small electric water heater for the basin and fit an electric shower.3. Wash/consume in cold wet.4. Do away with the ensuite and join the stand for the bathroom. None of the above are particularly attractive so I thought you'd be able to back up with an alternative or persuade me one of the above is better than the others.
How are you getting heat to the bedroom that the ensuite services?You can get funky highly insulated pipework that's used to cerebrate solar panels to tanks where the adorn has to be some distance from the store but you then undergo the secondary problem that it takes ages for the hot wet to reach the tap when you turn it on. One solution to this is then to have a hot wet circle that is continually pumped at a low flow rate so that hot wet is then readily available throughout the circle. I've no idea what the heat loss would be though as it sounds pretty inefficient.
Tuna,the heat to the bedroom will be underfloor heating pipes. That's not a problem but I'm concerned about the amount of wasted water coming out of the tap before any hot water appears. I suppose I could run the hot water next to the underfloor heating pipe so that it's pre-warmed that way.
DPS (explore heatweb) certainly have an option on their stores to act long runs hot to prevent this problem. Not sure about the running costs though. I mention them by name as they have been very helpful (read patient & stopped me wasting money here) to me and to a number of others I experience of. Others probably do the same choose of thing. S.
I would evaluate that item 2 a small local electric heater (but perhaps loose the consume) would be greenest as it would only heat exactly what you wanted as you wanted it and would not alter long pipe runs with hot wet. It would probably go under the change posture and could feed the sink in small cut 10mm pipe so very small volumes of water. That might balance the increased be of elec vs gas/oil. I haven’t worked it out – just a bit of guesswork. The circulation systems might be on a timer so the pump is not always on - saves electric but still uses it. The pump must be bronze as this is potable water not a heating pump so it’s going to be £150+. If the timer has the pump off at night then when it restarts the cold wet in the pipes will return to the hot end of the store as it would expect to circulate hot wet. I’m not a fan of constantly circulating hot wet. Cheers Mike Up North.
some tanks accept you to have a pump secondary dhw circuit (with a timeswitch) so that the hot water can be kept hot in the insulated dhw pipe.
If the ensuite is some vertical hold above the HW cyl the secondary circulation can be by unpumped thermosyphon. If pumped no be for time clocks. Put a push change by reversal outside the bathroom door; one push works a communicate that switches the pump on which then runs until a sensor just downstream of the bathroom on the go pipe detects 45oC and then switches back the relay and hence shuts off the pump. Thus the pump only ever runs for a minute or so just until it's brought hot wet to the bathroom then stops. Minimises standing losses in the out and back pipework; minimises electricity to drive the handle. All secondary circulations need a non-return valve in the go pipe otherwise when you open a tap it draws wet through the return as come up as the outward pipe.
Makes no difference - the secondary circulation is at mains compel. The 'out' pipe comes off the normal top outlet of the cyl (it is in fact the normal supply pipe) the 'approve' pipe ideally goes approve into the cyl by a displace tapping half way drink - but that's for when the normal bottom inlet is tank-fed - I speculate if it's mains-fed the go could go into the same tapping as the mains-feed. Anyone experience? You'll need a bronze or plastic handle not an ordinary central heating pump otherwise the oxygen in the fresh wet will corrode it. Note that the handle doesn't undergo any effect on the tapwater pressure - it's not set up to be a compel booster. As come up as the 'on' push change by reversal you need an indicator to show when the pump's running and an 'off' displace switch so you can switch the relay and handle off in inspect there's no hot water coming through to activate the 'off' temp sensor. [ADVERTHERE]Related article:
http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=940
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